Why would the Bible only “imply” its most important teaching—who God is? ?
Posted by admin | Filed under Religion & Spirituality
The Bible is clear on other basic teachings; why not on this, deemed the most important one by Trinitarians? Would not the Creator of the universe author a book that was clear on his being a Trinity if that were the case?
From the picture of the Trinity doctrine that appeared after the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. it includes the following definite ideas:
1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.
2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.
4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.
5. Each is said to be true God.
6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God
**Was it a teaching of Jesus and his disciples? If so, it should have appeared fully formed in the first century of our Common Era. And since what they taught is found in the Bible, then the Trinity doctrine is either a Bible teaching or it is not. If it is, it should be clearly taught in the Bible.
It is not reasonable to think that Jesus and his disciples would teach people about God and yet not tell them who God is, especially when some believers would be asked to give up even their lives for God. Hence, Jesus and his disciples should have given the highest priority to teaching others about this vital doctrine.
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are “inspired of God” and are to be used for “setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
So, please answer these questions:
1. Can I find any scripture that mentions “Trinity”?
2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
BETA: Sorry, but I don’t have LDS roots. This comes from years of investigating what the Bible *really* teaches. 
Apostle: Sorry but your point is moot. We are urged to “seek God” and to “draw close” to Him. How can we do that if we do not know the very nature of Him? He *wants*us to get to know Him. that is why he had the Bible preserved for us. And comparing *********….oh man, that is just disrespectful.
Beta, you are too.
HAPPYLASS: The Holy spirit is God’s active force, not Jehovah God’s power residing within himself, but his energy when projected out from himself for the accomplishing of his purposes. Your scriptures talk about the Holy Spirit, but you personify it by twisting to make it seem as if it’s a being. It’s not. (Again, it’s God’s active force).
we find Jesus repeatedly using impersonal pronouns when referring to God’s holy spirit, a most disrespectful thing to do if the holy spirit were the third person of a trinity, coequal and cosubstantial with Jehovah God himself. “The spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.” (John 14:17, NW; Ro; AT; ED)
mellamarlene: you can find the truth in any Bible. However, saying the NWT is not accurate is a HUGE assumption on your part. I encourage you to find out for yourself just how accurate it is, instead of passing around lies started by those who want to discredit it for their own agenda.
mellamarlene: you can find the truth in any Bible. However, saying the NWT is not accurate is a HUGE assumption on your part. I encourage you to find out for yourself just how accurate it is, instead of passing around lies started by those who want to discredit it for their own agenda.
June 2nd, 2010 at 6:09 am
Your LDS roots are shining through. Good for you!
@ Apostle – good point. ********* is certainly as weighty if not more so than the nature of God. If instruction regarding ********* isn’t in there, then certainly the basic understanding of God’s nature and our own nature doesn’t need to be in there either.
EDIT: Oh my, where ARE my manners? I can’t believe I was disrespectful to a question asked by you, who are ALWAYS respectful about what I believe… Shame on me! Shame!!!
June 6th, 2010 at 10:48 am
I’ve always wondered why Christ didn’t tell the parable of the egg… I grew up learning that Christ and God are separate beings and so I can not understand the trinity theory. It just doesn’t make any sense to me, I’ve had several people try to explain it to me, but in the end I still wonder why Christ would pray to himself, why he would call himself God’s son, how God could “not” have a body and yet Christ as a resurrected being has a body for eternity. You are right, there are so many questions that need to be asked.
June 6th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
No, no, and no.
Yet Jesus did have a holy ghost, he said so.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Can you find a scripture that means urinate? Does that mean they didnt do that??? oh my….does that mean if its not in the bible, it didnt happen or didnt exist…. uh oh.
1 John 5:7 …The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)
June 9th, 2010 at 4:54 am
Oh please. Like the Bible gives any answers as to the workings of the world, much less the nature of God. The Bible isn’t even good toilet paper. Want to survive somewhere? I suggest you bring a book other than that one.
June 9th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
You may not find the word “Trinity” in the New Testament, but you will certainly find the idea there.
June 12th, 2010 at 4:42 am
IF the Word of God is thought about, related to each of its messages, and treated by a loving intelligence, doctrine will and must develop.
But as to your question
Sermon 24. The Mystery of the Holy Trinity
“Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations; baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. ” Matt. xxviii. 19.
John Henry Newman is the person to consult for questions of the Christian Creed vis a vis the Bible. Most of all, I would avoid confusing the Christian Faith with a comprehensive understanding of the Bible. St Augustine esp. warned against this.
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It just ocurred to me that you are contradicting yourself. The 3rd word in the whole Bible is ‘God’. Leaving aside the Trinity for a moment, The Bible starts with ‘God’ and does not argue for Him. IT goes out of its way to avoid doing that.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
“trinity” is not a word found in The Bible… just the word to describe; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
volumes have been written on the subject and nothing will ever be resolved in any mortal lifetime.
My pov is a bit longer that YA should be used for so here is the link to a page I have on the subject if your interested
June 15th, 2010 at 6:58 am
really interesting question, id like to see the answers posted by trinitarians
June 16th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
“The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.”
John 1:5
In the context of that whole chapter, that pretty much sums it up.
June 19th, 2010 at 11:30 am
To answer your questions:
1) no
2) no
3) no
The doctrine of the trinity is based on forms of logic that started in the Greek empire, and certain biblical passages (I’m sure you’ve heard of them) Further it wouldn’t have been even thought of until the passages referring to Christ’s baptism and following were looked at. Old Testament passages give no revelation to a triune God until the passages mentioned come to light.
June 22nd, 2010 at 1:43 pm
You may find in the scriptures.
Biblical examples of The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, being three separate and distinct beings.
1) At Christ’s baptism, God the Father Spoke from Heaven, Christ was in the water, The Holy Ghost descended like a dove.
2) When Steven was stoned he had a vision in which he saw Christ standing on the right hand of God.
3) In the Garden of Gethsemane and on the Cross and many other places Christ prayed to His Father. (not himself)
The scriptures also say that they are one.
The meaning of the word one God as found in scripture means that they have the same powers, perfections, and desires for mankind. They are not the same person. When Christ teaches Christians to be one even as my Father and I are one, he is commanding them to be unified in faith, doctrine and purpose, not to surgically attach themselves to each other.
(all of this is in stark objection to trinity doctrine)
June 25th, 2010 at 6:56 am
Careful study of Matthew 28:18-20 shows Jesus commanding baptism in the “NAME” of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit- not the “names”.
If you think this is just grammatical semantics, you probably aren’t ready for this truth yet.
“Trinity” isn’t used in the Bible anywhere, but neither is “Bible”. We have to study to show ourselves approved.
In Genesis, when “God was creating man, He said, “Let US create man in OUR image.” The Bible is clear that the Father, the Son and the Spirit were at work in creation and that each had a specific part in it.
Some passages refer to Jesus being lesser than the Father, but you must understand where He was speaking from: He had left His rightful place in Heaven to be born in a manger on Earth. He grew up in a humble family among ordinary people, lived 33 years of completely sinless life (WOW), ministered for 3 years to people who either loved Him or hated Him, gave His life on the cross, carried the sins of all humankind to Hell, conquered Death, Hell and the grave, and returned to Heaven, ALL FOR US!!
Jesus’ perspective was an earthly one when He claimed to be lower than the Father. He had set aside some of His divine power to take on a human body for 33 years, and positionally speaking, He was lesser (or lower) than the Father.
There are very few verses that really capture the essence of the Trinity, and that’s because there was no doubting it in the first century. It wasn’t until later on that people (the Gnostics) started introducing the idea that the Trinity was a hoax. So the original writers of the Bible didn’t explicitly speak of it because it was a given for them.
Hope this helps!!
June 27th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
The reason you can’t find the trinity in the bible is because the trinity is a man made doctrine.Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. Not a Bible teaching.
What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?
The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.
According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899. Matt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)
John 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.” Psalms 83:18 says That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
June 29th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
1)the word “trinity”, is not used in the bible.
2)john 5:18,john 10:30,john14:9,matt28:19,
3)matt16:16,
i hope that helps you, your question seemed a little redundant to me, no offense, I was kinda having a hard time differentiating scriptues for each
my husband always says, he doesn’t like to use the bible to describe God, but rather share his experiences he’s shared with God.sometimes i geuss you have to step out in faith to really experience the presence and nature of God
July 1st, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Maybe because God wants people to search him out. He wants people to have to work to come to a true knowledge.
July 4th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
I can answer a couple of these . To answer all of these question would take a long long time . But will you read and consider them ?
I guess so much is always said about Jesus that I will post some things about the Holy Spirit this time
Does the Holy Spirit have a mind ?
1 Cor. 2 v 11 The Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of God
Romans 8 v 27, God knows the mind of the Spirit
Does the Holy Spirit have emotions ?
Eph .4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God . Grief is something one feels
Does the Holy Spirit have a will ?
1 Cor. 12 v 11 the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts ” to each one individually just as He wills . That’s a Sovereign choice.
Also Acts 16 v 6 Here the Spirit forbids Paul to preach in Asia and then redirects him to minister in Europe .
The Holy Spirit teaches believers John 14 : 26
He testifies of Christ John 15 v 26
He guides believers Romans 8:14
He commisions people to service to Acts 13 v 4
He issues commands Acts 8:29
He restrains sin Gen. 6 v 3
He intercedes , or prays , Romans 8 v 26
He speaks to people John 15 v 26 ; 2 Pet 1 :21
The Holy Spirit is identified with His character , which is holiness .
I don’t know why God didn’t come right out and say the word trinity . His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts .
But it’s a truth worth finding .
Edit : If the Holy Spirit is a force as the Watchtower Society argues , then why does He use personal pronouns ” Me ” & ” I” in reference to Himself ? Acts 13 : 2
.
July 6th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
The origin of the Trinity doctrine?
The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.
According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.
July 9th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
I find that HappyLass gave you numerous scriptures to support what she said, and that you attempted to refute it with one out of your NW bible, and with the teachings that come out of your doctrine. Now do me a favor-go to a Bible, and read those that she gave you. Do you, yourself, see ‘active force’ as a reference to the Holy Spirit? If you do, then you are still holding your NW book.